The Chernukhino launch location Kiev wants us to forget

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The secret service of Ukraine (SBU) released in 2014 a couple of intercepted telephone calls between separatists and Russian military people.

One of the recorded phone calls was released via internet by SBU within hours of the crash.

One of three alleged phone calls was made 20 minutes after the plane crash by Igor Bezler, a pro-Russian separatist and rebel commander. The security agency said he called his “coordinator” Vasyl Mykolaiovych Geranin, whom the SBU claims is a colonel of the Main Intelligence Directorate of the GRU, Russia’s military intelligence apparatus.

The video can be seen here.

There are a couple of issues with this video:

  1. The time is incorrect. The first call is done at 4:40 PM local time.Bezler tells ‘we have just shot down a plane’. Bezler says it was shot down 30 minutes ago. 4:40pm minus 30 minutes makes 4:10 PM. However MH17 FDR stopped recording at 4:20 PM.
  2. The location the plane has crashed according Bezler. “it fell down near Enakivo’.  The village name is also known as Yenakijeve. Enakievo is however 30 km from the place where the cockpit was found. And even 35 km from Hrabove where the main fuselage was found. Interesting is that reports that the transponder data became unreliable near Enakievo. This is the location where the transponder data became unreliable.
  3. Another tapped telephone call was between two separatists  named “Major” and “Grek” .
    Grek (Russian for “Greek”] is a nickname for Alexander Afendikov Grigoryevich. He is an ethnic Greek in the sixth generation from Russia. His love for Greece can be seen on this photo where he wears a Greek flag as patch on his army uniform. During the conflict in Donbass Afendikov was on the side of the militia and for some time was even a commandant.
    of Yenakiyevo. He is now mayor of Debaltsevo.
    Major states the missile was launched from Chernukhino (also named Chornukhyne, Chernuhinskoho or Tschernuhino (German language). This location is near Debaltseve and 45 km from Enakivo. So what about the launch location near Snizhne?video1

In a third tapped telephone called someone addresses Grek as  as “Sasha” (short for Alexander).

Christo Grozev called Grek. See his blog here. You will also hear the voice of Grek. Grek denies that the recorded telephone call was real.
At July 17 10:19 PM local Kiev time polician Oleh Tyahnybok  sent out a Tweet. Translated it reads:

Is 100% evidence that the passenger plane, which was flying from Amsterdam to Malaysia brought down by terrorists from the Chernuhinskoho checkpoint.

International Business Times published a transcript of the telephone conversations.

The video  has been translated in several languages and is published at the website of the SBU.

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29 Comments on The Chernukhino launch location Kiev wants us to forget

  1. Well, actually, it’s not a “launch location” but a “launch location claim.” It’s obvious the separatists knew not much of the exact Russian plans of where to deploy the ‘Buks.’ It was speculated that another of two or three ‘Buks’ deployed by Russia was stationed somewhere near Chornukhyno; however, there’s no concrete evidence of that. Everything we know is that the interlocutors in the wiretap named the village for some reason but we don’t know the reason. It can also be they might have been misleading possible wiretappers.

    As for Yenakiyeve, Igor Bezler was a Horlivka (Ukr.)/Gorlovka (Rus.) separatist warlord at the time. If you look towards the crash site from there, it’s exactly “behind Yenakiyevo” (behind, not near — that’s what they say in Russian).

    • Its really fun to see the Believers in the SBU story struggle with counter evidence and come up with ad-hoc theories to explain the unexplainable.

      So commander Bezler, a high-ranked officer in the DNR army, didn’t know anything about the BUK movement;

      They reported some locations that don’t fit logically in the magical BUK tour which led to the south of Snizhne launchsite, but they *must* have had some reasons, somewhere hidden again in the Great Unknown.

      It could be they were just misleading by reporting a bogus story, so they didn´t communicate to coordinate actions but just for the fun of it (the dogma of the evil lying Russians is is supported with this, so it has obviously a lot of potential!)

      The first account of the existence of the tapes I found is this one, posted together with lone BUK vid (18:46 EEST, about same time the lone BUK vid was re-uploaded by Eliot Higgins, Euromaidan and @WowihaY´s looks like a coordinated action). Though it could be an update:

      Maybe one could consider this is a fraud. When objective content analysis is performed, you could see there are really two parts making up this nicely edited piece of information.

      One in which is spoken of a downing of a plane ¨outside Enakievo¨ and one in which rebels found out a civilian plane was shot down, obviously 35 km further away. These parts don’t seem to have any relation (its a bit like the two-faced launch plume :-)).

      So the parts are glued together ONLY on the basis of a suggestive assertion written by the SBU people a fatal mistake should have been made:

      “Having inspected the scene, terrorists decided they shot the wrong aircraft”.

      In fact, this never follows from the transscripted taps.

      Interestingly the other building block of the fatal mistake narrative is the suggestive manipulation of the deleted Strelkov_info message purporting a AN-26 was shot down near the mine Progress. In this article I have listed 7 fallacies and three false assumptions concerning this operation led by Ukraine Crisis Media Centre (SBU outlet) and others.

      Second, we don’t have original timestamps, so we don’t know whether the time of capture mentioned by the SBU are right. This really complicates the story.

      Third, One of the characters in the SBU phone calls is named Grek. He was in custody of the extremist Ukrainian battalion Azov at the 17th.

      “Azov – Today Azov battalion servicemen detained Aleksey Pabushkov aka “Grek”, an accomplice of a well-known terrorist from DPR nicknamed “Chechen”.

      So what could one do?

      First, one has to be open for the suggestion the SBU could have forged evidence out of political motives. This is maybe the hardest part for pro-Kievites Prosto, Boggled and other Bellingcat peeps, but it should be done.
      Then one could try to find out if the situation from the first part really happened, i.e. by researching lost armor, DNR press releases, and when.

      Candidate is maybe this one: 16 july, SU25M1, Gorlovka (¨outside Enakievo¨ could be north-west, right to Gorlovka)

      • Hector, you show info he was DETAINED.
        Not if he was immediately released or not.
        Is the ‘Grek’ therefore still in custody?
        Can you prove he was not interrogated and released on the 15th?
        You state the 17th he was still in custody, but I have yet to find anything specific to his court trial or jailing.
        Are you so sure he was still in custody, as you state, or is it another assertion you make but are not so sure of the facts?

        Fare thee well

      • Can you give info that DNR knew he was captured, specifically ‘Major’, since he was the one that initiated the call.
        Could he have not known he was a captured person and just reporting to someone higher up the food chain, or a friend, of what he knows.
        Yes, the releases of his capture were the 15th and 16th, but was a detailed captured asset list distributed to each and every member?
        Major called him, Grek could have just answered as he would do if he had a gun to his head.
        Or he could have been free at that moment.
        Or someone sounding like ‘Grek’ could have answered the phone and just asked for info and let Major do most of the talking.

        Fare thee well

      • You state he was still in custody July 17, the article just says he was detained July 15.
        I accept that his side may have been forged.
        Or he was in custody and answered the phone with a gun to his head.
        Or he was released and the ‘Major’ contacted him.
        The items Grek says are kind of irrelevant, the things that are important are the ones that Major says, and it is important he called Grek.
        Grek sounds short and could be a similar sounding SBU agent keeping conversation short to not give himself away but get info.
        IF Grek was released, it could be just what SBU says.

        AS far as them outright forging it and releasing it, they are not the Russian MoD.
        Or Kremlin defender outright liars like boya below or Maxvanderbluff.
        Or repeatedly mistaken in their assertions like Hector.

        There was not just one deleted comment in that forum, but that was the one that was captured, there were about ten removed at the time of the shoot down.

        So do you have anything that asserts he is still in captivity on the 17th? or is that just a false assumption your making not based on anything specific?
        Not that it really matters to me, Major was reporting the info, and if he was releasing it to Grek and it was eavesdropped then story stands up.
        If it was a SBU agent just playing coy while an excited Major divulges a bunch of info, good for them on their acting job.
        Grek says nothing important, I personally think it is him, and he doesn’t even sound shocked a civilian plane got shot down.
        The tapes sound legit to me overall.

        Fare thee well

        • It sounds legit to you, well that proves it then!

          To prove your credibility you would list al my kremlin lies. Now I may ask you to list my false assertions too.

          So maybe there are two or even more Greks flowing in the ranks of the Chernukhino cossacks, or maybe the ultimate Grek was released the same day and fled in a hurry to the Donbass again.

          But as you say, it doesn´t matter. To every objective observer its obvious the way these taps are constructed follow all the guidelines for a deceptive message. Suggesting a relation between events that weren´t connected, fixing a frame of guilt to spur misintepretation and so on.

          And, Boggled, when have you ever been right?

          • Screwed up your South wind theory with your own evidence presented by Ole.
            Too some time with you hard heads, but I was right.

            Hector, make sure you begin first by going through all your tweets and other comments on message boards and try to delete them.
            Also, as admin pointed out not to long ago, you took his words and put a twist on them then repeated your false assumption of what he said, and that among other items got you a ban.

            A full list could be distributed, but you are a useful idiot for the Kremlin and sometimes like Ole’s you provide the proof that your ‘theories’ are a sham.

            As I said, Grek does not make any important statements in the recording.
            Major does, and it sounds like him and someone detailing the murder of hundreds of international civilians.

            Maybe you should hire a Ukrainian to translate the Russian from the video OR the official Ukrainian transcripts before you make yourself a fool again and make assumptions out of it.
            You should try to get was actually said and not base it on items that get lost in translation by people that do not have all the nuances of English down pat.

            The messages were released, and I am pretty sure Ukrainians (whose second language is Russian most often) knew what what said and could analyze it better then you can.
            We can second guess at the various terrorists meaning of what they said, but it seems pretty cut and dry and it is important they were released because it does show some culpability by the RUSSIAN military leadership that was in the region and what they said.

            Could the analysts got it wrong, maybe, but imagine all those intercepted communications they got that they did not release that we might get some view of when JIT makes its court case.

          • Hector Reban // September 30, 2015 at 7:30 am //

            To prove my evil intent and give some satisfactory outlet to your paranoia you come up with this again?

            @loondale Zaroshchenskoye BUK likely; … @masamikuramoto @putupyourDukes @fxnighttrader


            Well, it were MY words. Its MY assessment of the Zaroshchenskoye article. Nothing twisted.

            Its a fine example of how you NATO/Bcat trolls are working, thats why I´m willing to defend myself here. Twisting words, yes. My words.

            And your wind story was of course pathetic and hilariously wrong.

          • Ole provided the METAR.
            In it stated exactly where variable winds were coming for the last hour.
            And they were from the SOUTH.
            It was not my fault he interpreted them wrong and proved winds came from the South during that hour before noon.

            Tell Kobs to look at the eighteen wheeler you just reposted on your thread and ask himself why the box of the semi is floating.
            Same with the car in front of the camera vehicle.

            How does this sound to you?

            quote – ‘And again this fascist @MJoyce2244is defending Kiev executed genocide with his euphemism ¨decimating¨ ‘

            What objective evidence you have he is a fascist?
            What genocide?
            The one caused by the people that just kicked out about every humanitarian aid org and human rights watch and observers in the Donbas?
            The one’s that just imported a new thermobaric weapon that there are about 40 known in the world and none of them have ever been owned by Ukraine?
            The ones that are jamming OSCE drones patrolling the border and checking warehouses?
            Those that had the execution orders for any dissenters?
            Those whose fanboy Motorola admitted he murdered in cold but more then 10 POWs against all Geneva conventions?

            admin will yell at me for getting off topic, but here is one of your anarchist lying tweets.
            Why don´t they indict Kroatian (and Amer.) leaders as war-criminals for the murder of 14.000 Serbs in the Krajina massacre?
            14k? You better check your facts before posting.
            And do not believe those by the lying Serbs who orchestrated the Srebnica murders, which Strelkov was part of (read his book).

            You can take your anarchist lies and manufactured truths and go blow them up someone else’s …
            I and the world know the facts.
            I am really surprised you are not a holocaust denier.
            But like a Russian you defend Stalin’s actions.

            Fare thee well

  2. IMO, Chernukhino is impossible if it was BUK warhead (like it seems to have been) that destroyed MH17 cockpit.


    • In a few more words: the damage would have been mainly on left side wing.
      And the wing would have triggered the warhead proximity fuse so far from the plane fuselage that there would not be any explosive residue in cockpit parts, unlike how we now see it.

  3. Things can get lost in translation.
    From reading the English subtitles, it could also indicate who they were, not the location of the launch.
    Also could have been they were the one’s that shot down another plane previously and were operating the BUK the ‘Major’ knew about.
    Plane might not mean MH17, although it is possible.

    OR possibly Bez is discussing what he thinks is possible, even though he does not know what exactly Strelkov and Moscow planned in the week prior.
    He is making assumptions, that are not correct, but because he does not have all the info, he is just stating what he believes happened.

    Or presenting a fallguy and false scenario, if he thinks someone is listening in.

    Moscow is famous for teaching its military to use deceptions and codes to describe items.
    Could it be a code talk for what he wants the other to do?

    There are a lot of crazy items discussed and false objects, I mean just a little later, they have Kozitsyn describing MH17 brings spies into the region.

    As far as timing, they may not have stamped it at the recording time, someone put in the numbers words and images to the audio recording to put it on You Tube.
    Could it have been a recording made an hour and a 10 minutes after the downing and they labelled it incorrectly in a rush to get it out?
    So the call was actually made 5:33 Kyiv time, then some staffer thought it was local time and subtracted an hour in editing to present Kyiv time?
    Probably won’t get a definitive answer on that.

    Another possibility would be Bezler in heightened adrenaline trying to find out what happened misjudged the time frame when it happened.
    Not everyone wears a watch and checks it.
    Could be he was making an educated guess from what was reported to him.
    IE, he heard a smoke plume could be seen, so he guessed about the time the firing was made.
    Just a few possibilities that will need to be cleared up and thoroughly looked at to determine the reliability of the wire taps.

    Fare thee well

  4. this tape has been debunked long time ago.
    “Bezler said the talk had really taken place but the he had talked about a Ukrainian attack aircraft shot down by the militia above Yenakiyevo a day before the Malaysian airliner crash.”
    Enakievo and Chernukhino are about 45km away from where US satellite and other intel put the launcher (Snizhne) and that the time is now 7 minutes before they reported the shooting down and set off to look for the wreckage.

    5:11pm and onwards: discussion of MH17”
    “Earlier on 16 July at least one of a pair of two Su-25s was hit by “portable air defence systems””
    “A Sukhoi jet was shot down over Gorlovka”

  5. Hector Reban // September 25, 2015 at 7:03 am //

    > you could see there are really two parts making up this nicely edited piece of information

    — Actually, there are three very separate parts in the recording clearly marked as such. So if you don’t believe the first one of them the remaining two tell absolutely the same story: they claimed to have shot down a Ukrainian An-26 but found a Boeing full of passengers instead.

  6. Well, the first sentence of your alleged middle part belongs to Part I (or to a small part referring to again another downed plane) and the rest to Part II. This is the exact spot where the glueing takes place. Also the time changes from 4:33 to 5:11 at this point. The conversation supposedly gets along with ¨Grek¨, in captivity since the 15th.

    Nowhere in Part II of the tapes is clear rebels themselves shot anything. ¨On TV they are saying its an AN-26¨, so these people know nothing and have to gather even this – faulty – information from outside parties.

    Are you really still asserting Chernukino/outside Enakievo and south of Snizhne have anything to do with one another?

    • Grek in captivity?
      Reports say detained, but nothing to say he was immediately released or not.
      Nothing to say he is still in prison today, is there?

      If he was still detained at the time of the shooting, did the ‘Major’ know that?
      Or was he calling someone in UA custody, and UA used that phone to obtain information?
      It is obvious Major called, I think.
      Is he reporting in an official capacity, as an associate, or as a friend?
      To me it sounds like Major is at his wit’s end and needs to talk with someone and trying to figure out what to do.

      Was it Grek that was released? Was it Grek with a gun to his head? or just someone that sounded like Grek from UA military that kept his answers short and not enough to give himself away?
      Grek’s responses sounds stilted and short to me and not particularly alarmed at finding out about the destruction of a civilian plane.
      Maybe that is a typical military attitude, but Major sounds more alarmed then Grek.

      Fare thee well

    • Oh, yes, and I say nothing about Chornukhyne/Chernukhino as it was the only moment the place name was mentioned in some possible connection with MH17.

  7. Well, in this case, if you count it this way, there are five parts of the recording, but still not two.

    And you can only put into doubt the first one, about a plane shot down “behind Yenakiyevo.” Bezler speaking Russian says “behind” but not “near” or “outside.” If you look in the direction from Horlivka/Gorlovka where Bezler was an actor at the time, the MH17 crash site is exactly “behind Yenakiyevo.”

    Besides, the “Grek” mentioned was surely not the only one; the nickname which literally means “a Greek” by ethnicity or nationality but can be used indirectly looks to be rather popular among both sides of the conflict. At least, you say about a “Grek” named Aleksey Pabushkov who was detained before the crash; however, in the recording “Major” clearly calls “Grek” by his first name “Sasha” at 1:09 which stands for Aleksander.

    • Prosto:

      You are talking nonsense. The way you are manipulating the phrase “behind Enakiveo” will logically end up to being valid for the whole world.

      Second, I will admit there is a chance more Greks operated in the neighbourhood and took part in the small groupings that fought at Enakievo/Chernukhino.

      That this figure was named Sasha says nothing. Your reference is the SBU is rightly designating this name, and just that is under investigation here. It could as well be a lead the person displayed here is in reality not “Grek”, which would be supported by the fact Grek was detained.

      But the tapes really don’t say a thing. Without the added suggestion there is really nothing to support the fatal mistake narrative. “The story” isn’t being told, it is planted by suggesting a preconceived impression to lead people to interpret things that weren’t there.

      Furthermore, the events don’t support this Chernukhino/Enakievo story, so maybe thats the reason why it never comes up any more. Maybe something you could think about.

    • Prosto:

      You are talking nonsense. The way you are manipulating the phrase “behind Enakiveo” will logically end up to being valid for the whole world.

      Second, I will admit there is a chance more Greks operated in the neighbourhood and took part in the small groupings that fought at Enakievo/Chernukhino.

      That this figure was named Sasha says nothing. Your reference is the SBU is rightly designating this name, and just that is under investigation here. It could as well be a lead the person displayed here is in reality not “Grek”, which would be supported by the fact Grek was detained.

      But the tapes really don’t say a thing. Without the added suggestion there is really nothing to support the fatal mistake narrative. “The story” isn’t being told, it is planted by suggesting a preconceived impression to lead people to interpret things that weren’t there.

      Furthermore, the events don’t support this Chernukhino/Enakievo story, so maybe thats the reason why it never comes up any more. Maybe something you could think about.

      • > the events don’t support this Chernukhino/Enakievo story, so maybe thats the reason why it never comes up any more

        — That’s what I’ve been telling about!

        The phrase about Chornukhyne was in fact pronounced but it must have finally be understood to be wrong. We don’t know why they spoke about the place first. Maybe they had a MANPAD squad around there and thought it was them who shot down a plane.

        On the other side, the phrase about Yenakiyevo is what I’m trying to clarify not manipulate. The people in the recording speak Russian and Bezler, then a warlord in Horlivka, spoke about a plane being shot “behind” Yenakiyevo — which is exactly the direction from Horlivka to the actual crash site. The English subtitles give the wrong translation here.

        • They probably spoke about the place because they shot down a plane that fell overthere. Grabovo as ¨behind Enakievo doesn´t make sense from the Chernukino area. Gorlovka does. So maybe its the SU25 they shot down at the 16th.

          BTW with a manpad its not probable they thought they shot at a plane near Enakievo nor Gorlovka. Maybe they targeted it between Chernukino and Debaltsjeve. Then it crashed behind Enakievo near Gorlovka.

      • Grek became mayor of Debalcevo in February 2015 after rebels had returned it under their control. His name is Aleksandr Grigoryevich Afendikov.

  8. Intercepted Grek/Major phonecall about Chernukhino Cossacks is true. Chernukhino Cossacks were stationed on road E50 checkpoint 48.293522, 38.534418, north west of small village Mius, which itself is west of Fashchivka.

    This witness saw the plane falling down in the area of Mius river after MH17 crash

    This was observed by air traffic control center in Rostov approximatly at the same time as Grek/Major phonecall
    Kemet of added Rostov radar picture to Google map
    It showes that the last position (little blue “T”s ) was just south east of Fashchivka.

    Part II of the video starts at 0:45 and two plumes can be seen. It’s filmed from building equipment yard in Fashchivka 48.284240, 38.610519. Large plume on the right is MH17’s. The smaller left plume’s origin is in direction of the building with cylindrical rooftop seen in video 48.276992, 38.608528.

    Crucial in finding exact plane crash site is this report in rebels news
    There we see picture of SU25 crash parts
    It could be geolocated here 48.258624, 38.598612. The path where a girl walks and 3 trees are on south. Shadows on this picture come from west to east which corectly matches the evening hours and the time Rus Vesna posted that news 18:32 Moscow time, July 17.

    Conclusion is Chernukhino Cossacks shot down Ukrainian Su25!
    It’s the plane Russian MoD detected at 16:21:35 and observed for next 4 minutes.
    It’s the one of two planes that didn’t return to the Su25 base as witness Agapov said to Russian KP journalists and Russian investigator.

    • Boya:
      The photo which you suggest shows a crashed SU-25 is in fact a shot down Antonov 26 at July15! See this article
      So how true is the rest of your story?

      • July 15, interesting. That would mean the Ukrainians breached their stop of sorties.

        There is another message about a downed plane at the 15th, one of the SU´s bombing Snizhne:

        That would mean 2 planes were downed at the 15th;
        Plus two at the 16th, the second fell near the Russian border at 17:00;

        Maybe thats what Khmuryi meant by: ¨Yesterday we downed two planes; Today the second.¨

        Then this part of his conversations should orgininate from the evening of the 16th? (And the day before his 3 Gvozdikas arrived in Donetsk, which he is going to fetch two hours later, as he mentions in the taps).

        • Actually, the An-26 mentioned by RIA Novosti had been shot down on July 14 — not 15 (the agency clearly states it happened “on Monday” which was July 14; the July 15 story there is about the fate of the airmen shot down the previous day).

          And the staunchly pro-Kremlin and thus pro-separatist Regnum is the only source claiming a Ukrainian ground attack plane (presumably Su-25) was shot down “after bombing Snizhne” on July 15. I couldn’t find a single confirmation of this from another source, even pro-separatist one.

          On the other side, this Regnum story of July 15 tells about an An-26 shot down “yesterday,” i. e. on July 14.

          • Hector Reban // September 29, 2015 at 7:33 am //

            Well, Prosto, then the Khmuryi taps make no sense at all. For sure they have not been tapped on the 17th according to the information provided above.

            About deceitfull information: can you find any source that fits the Khmuryi conversations he shoots down “the second” on the 17th, before 9:08 in the morning? Mybe you can help us?

            Or can I simply discard this tapes in the way you do, by referring to the not so trustworthy Ukrainian state apparatus that disseminated this information?

            The Regnum piece speakes of a downed plane after the Snizhne bombings (and an AN the day before in one sentence).

            Do you think the Russians bombed Snizhne, as the official false flag narrative of the Ukrainians says? Or did they make sorties at the 15th after all?

          • A couple post Hector I suggest you read, and read again.
            A little better transcripts of the conversations of the various captured audio.



            As far as the Khmuryi tapes, is it hard for you too accept that maybe he was feed intelligence that was wrong about the SU25 downing on the 17th.
            Maybe he got a separate intelligence brief from Moscow that included only one downed plane confirmed that morning for the plane shot on the 16th.
            And he was mistaken on his intelligence claim of 2 planes shot down himself.
            And officially on the 16th, only one was downed the second was hit and flew back to base.

            So two planes flying ON the 16th, one report from separatist intelligence claiming two planes down (although it was only one down and another hit).
            And another report he got from FSB intelligence JUST THAT MORNING of the 17th, that only one plane was down (not dated though, just a confirmation report of a plane).
            Or where every he gathered other intelligence from.
            Maybe he was trying to read an English twitter feed and translated wrong and figured there was another downed the 17th.
            So then he is trying to claim three total from his intelligence reports, but he is wrong and only one went down on the 16th.

            As far as the Snow bombing and the claim they shot down an SU25, do you think it is possible the ever lying Kremlin sponsored media may have done this lie as they did the manufactured crucified child story?

            Separatists bombed the town with mortars, claimed it was planes (at 6:30 in the morning when most were in bed sleeping during the summer) so could not tell you if planes were flying or mortars.

            Not a single person from Removka or nearby has produced anything as far as proof of a plane landing there and destroying a building or anything.

            So I believe that Regnum piece and others were just playing coverup for terrorists with some more lies, including a SU25 downed that day.

            Fare thee well

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