Dutch Nieuwsuur reports separatists eyewitnessed missile launch.

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Dutch tv program Nieuwsuur broadcasted at July 1 2017 the first episode of  reconstruction of what happened to MH17 on July 17, 2014. Watch a recording of the first episode here.  Item starts at 09:48.

For those of you with troubles watching, here is a recording on Youtube.

The second episode will be broadcasted on Sunday July 2.

I used the excellent comments of Arnold Greidanus on Twitter in this blogpost.

The first episode had some interesting new details.

  • The video of the parked BUK in Donetsk was first shown to French journalists in the Ramada hotel in Donetsk in the morning of July 17
  • Ukraine SBU was constantly monitoring the Donetsk-Snizhne road for military movements by separatists. This road was the main supply route for separatists fighting near the Ukraine-Russia border.
  • Severall eyewitness active as separatists saw that MH17 was fired at from the ground
  • At July 17 no Ukraine aircraft were operating. One reason was because of bombing of own positions the day before. Another reason given was it costs too much.
  • An informant of the SBU saw the BUK TELAR missing one missile on a truck in Luhansk heading to the Russian border.
  • Ukraine people went to the Netherlands to witness for the Dutch Public Prosecution Service. According Nieuwsuur reporter Dennekamp there seems to be two parallel investigations.

The maker of the video showing the BUK parked in Donetsk is not aware of what he filmed. A bit later he walked into the Ramada hotel in Donetsk and shows the video to a group of French journalists.

The Ramada is about 4,5 km drive from the location where the video was made.

Though not mentioned explicitly: the person showing dashcam video to French journalists was most likely their driver.

The man who made the video told the journalists he saw large missile on the BUK. French freelance photographer Capucine Granier-Deferre saw the video buy did not put much attention to it as she had to leave. She was just to leave for working with Jerome Sessini in the area that day. Sessini was later called by a separatists press officer and was told “We shot down a military plane”.

Nieuwsuur found out the Ukraine secret service was monitoring live the road Donetsk towards Snizhne permanently till mid July. So SBU was able to know exactly what kind of weapons were in the hands of the separatists. Reporter Gert-Jan Dennekamp told after his item was shown that SBU had camera’s along the road. “In June SBU had observation camera’s placed in the streets of Torez. And also in streets of a city nearby” according Anton Gerasjenko, advisor of minister of Internal Affairs.

However at July 17 the camera’s were not working because bad internet connections. But SBU still had the spotters so they knew what was moving.

At July 17 around 12 o’clock someone called Anton Gerasjenko. He told Gerasjenko an acquaintance of his, a taxidriver in Snizhne, saw a strange vehicle. He had seen tanks before , these were recognized, but this vehicle was not recognized.

Nieuwsuur further explains that from the night of July 15-16 during 19 hours heavy fighting near Marynovka was taking place. From Russian soil Grads were fired to Ukraine positions. Marynovka was taken by separatists. During 16th of July several air attacks, one Su-25 downed.

An Ukraine army commander  told NOS reporter that at July 17 there were no Ukraine fighterjets operating. He did not ask for air support as on the day before at bombing runs Ukraine positions were hit.

Another commander of Ukraine army named Sergei Mandalina told there were no planes flying as it would cost too much.

 

Russian LiveNews reports intially an Antonov was shot down by a missile.

Anonymous Ukrainian commander near Marynovka tells he saw MH17 fall from the clouds.

Separatist commander Som didn’t see the missile but his men told him they saw it went straight up turning right.

<remark> I do not understand the turning right. See the map below. From both Saur Mogila as from  Marynovka  a missile launched from a field south of Snizhne would appear to be going left, northwest from the position of the person watching the missile.

The image below was taken from MH17.webtak.ru. It  has an insert showing the patch on the left arm of commander Som. It shows he was part of the Vostok battalion.

They were stationed at/near Saur-Mogila. Som now believes the man saw a BUK missile. Som denies the missile had hit MH17. He cannot tell much more but it happened before there eyes.

Some of the Ukrainian commanders interviewed are also witnesses to the JIT and were brought to the Netherlands to testify.

Anton Gerasjenko told Nieuwsuur that a policeman saw in the morning of July 18 the BUK on a lowloader driving in Luhansk and missing one misisle. The policeman was spying in a safehouse. His task was to film all transports that were driving by.

This was not shown in the Nieuwsuur item. I added the photo below as some people are not convinced of the smoke plume.

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14 Comments on Dutch Nieuwsuur reports separatists eyewitnessed missile launch.

  1. Sean Lamb // July 2, 2017 at 7:49 am // Reply

    “Dutch Nieuwsuur reports separatists eyewitnessed missile launch.”

    But they haven’t managed to talk to one yet (at least as your summary describes it).

    It is entirely possibly separatists did see a Buk missile on the day MH17 went down – despite the failure of Dutch TV after 3 years to locate one. But the smoke trail photo was still taken the day before when a Su-25 was downed.

    In fact the hear-say separatist report – from the position of Saur-Mogila – is only consistent with the Su-25 downing on July 16. A missile that goes straight up and turns right is going in the opposite direction from MH17. This is a result of confirmation bias, the media rejects all eye-witness reports it believes are wrong and sifts through them all until it finds one it thinks is correct. Even though it is a second-hand report that may be the result of a miscommunication.

    And it is entirely possible that the separatists did send the Buk to Russia via a bizarre de-tour past Lugansk airport as witnessed by the policeman. But the intercept of Orion and Delphin discussing such a drive relates to before MH17 was downed.

    Perhaps Dutch media is not so different from Russian media as you might like to think?

    • “Som” was filmed at Saur-Mogila, but he and others in this video talk about Marinovka which is towards the east from Saur-Mogila. Those witnesses were near Marinovka or closer to the launch site. From their point of view, the missile turned right from the missile launch site 47.973932N 38.763978E towards the missile strike site 48.12715N 38.52630538E.

      You can delude yourself about the missile smoke trail photos, but JIT filmed interview with the photographer and has the photocamera and the flash card with the raw images 15 MB each including two smoke trail photos (shot from the photographer’s balcony) and several photos of the smoke from the crash site he shot from the building roof 4 min later. Also, JIT found two more missile smoke trail photos shot from Snezhnoe, published one of them.

      • From Marinovki to Boeing – this is on the left
        http://s019.radikal.ru/i627/1707/a7/d4eb5da6924f.png

        • “You can delude yourself about the missile smoke trail photos, but JIT filmed interview with the photographer and has the photocamera and the flash card with the raw images 15 MB each”

          Metadata isn’t embedded into the RAW images, it is just associated with the file and is easily edited. The fact they are in RAW format doesn’t alter the fact we can’t be sure what day it was taken.

          We know that an Su-25 was downed on July 16, on a clear blue sky day in that vicinity – there is photo of smoke coming up from the crash site.

          Geolocation shows that the photograph was taken pointing to the south-east. This is how the Dutch Safety Board describes the weather conditions on July 17

          “The area to the south of flight MH17’s last known position contained mostly cumulonimbus clouds and possibly thunderstorms. The sky above areas associated with the cumulonimbus clouds was obscured with a cloud base of between 1000 – 5000 ft, in other places the sky was less obscured….Analysis of ground observations showed that thunderstorms were reported in the area to the south, west and south-west of the crash area.”

          Nothing of this is shown in the smoke-trail photo.

        • Sean Lamb // July 3, 2017 at 1:33 pm // Reply

          And just one final piece of evidence pointing to a Buk missile being fired – unsuccessfully – before July 17

          It is an interview with the Ukrainian Oleg ZAKHARCHUK of air command Center.

          He states pilots were being painted with radar in the area of ​​Torez, Enakiev and Mospin.

          And in particular he talks about an unsuccessful BUK missile launch “shortly before July 17” from a BUK

          Q: Shortly before July 17, one pilot, I do not have the right reveal the name, flying a MiG 29 and personally observed the “BUK” – here you can not be visually confused.

          A: The pilot made an anti-missile maneuver and left the missile.

          https://translate.google.com.au/translate?hl=en&sl=ru&u=https://www.novayagazeta.ru/inquests/69029.html&prev=search

  2. > The first episode had some interesting new details.

    #3 from the top
    Separatists did not see that MH17 was fired at from the ground. They saw a missile fired from the ground. It flew straight and then turned to the right.
    MH17 could not have been the target of the missile that turned _to the right_
    My guess the target was a Su-25 which performed an anti-missile maneuver; having missed the target, the missile destroyed itself. See my comments here:
    http://www.whathappenedtoflightmh17.com/new-bellingcat-report-identifying-khmuryi-the-major-general-linked-to-the-downing-of-mh17/

    #4 from the top
    Two more reasons for Ukrainian Airforce not flying on 17 July. As you can remember, the first reason was given by Markian Lubkivsky, the aide of the then SBU head Nalivaichenko, in Dec 2014. He said that military planes did not fly on 17 July because of a rescue operation to find and save pilots whose aircraft were downed on previous days. The second reason was given by Captain Voloshin in Aug 2015. He said they did not fly on 17 July because of the inclement weather. Thus, four different reasons! Not too many?

    Now, about Capucine Granier-Deferre. Why was she silent for almost three years? It would be just natural if she had come forward with her story immediately after the PM photo publication. But neither the two PM publications nor the reports by DSB and JIT, nor by Bellingcat, prompted her to talk about the morning of 17 July. Perhaps, she was asked to be silent?

  3. “Anonymous Ukrainian commander near Marynovka tells he saw MH17 fall from the clouds.”
    What good eyes, from 33 km to see a light aircraft against the background of light clouds … I envy.

  4. sotilaspassi // July 3, 2017 at 10:45 am // Reply

    About: ” I do not understand the turning right.”
    https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxNz0P5oVk2wRjhnUld6T3dsYms/view

  5. I think viewers nos.nl as it would be interesting to learn about the defeat of Polish mercenaries near the Saur grave.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94hmFBrD33E
    The commander of the “Medvedevs” division “Som” of the brigade “Vostok” told the details of the bout for the key height of Donbass
    We will discuss?

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